Karen Traviss will leave SW

[Tracyn]

Here is her blog entry:

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/2009/08/end-of-one-era-start-of-another.html

This is the TOR forum thread for it : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=58471 Where most fans bash her name and what she has done, just as they bash Mando'ade whenever they get the opportunity.

And here is a thread on Mandoboard: http://mandalorians.forumotion.net/book-club-for-mandos-f5/kt-leaving-star-wars-t157.htm

I for one am sad and I'm still curious as to what drastic changes in the canon have her wrap up her work on her SW series.

[Shi Akaan]

WOW. To think that you spend so much work on a few books that are now out of canon and have no value. I mean that just sucks and to top it off theres another mando bash thread. *sigh* I have lost all respect for the ToR forums and that last link pretty much summed up my feelings for karen traviss leaving :'( I acualy just bought her second novel. I don't even know if im going to read it now.

[Tracyn]

WOW. To think that you spend so much work on a few books that are now out of canon and have no value. I mean that just sucks and to top it off theres another mando bash thread. *sigh* I have lost all respect for the ToR forums and that last link pretty much summed up my feelings for karen traviss leaving :'( I acualy just bought her second novel. I don't even know if im going to read it now.

You should, because even if in the end it's no longer considered "Canon", it is still a great read and it will draw you in. Not only that but it will give you a better understanding of how mandalorians are.

I still haven't found anything concrete on what exactly contradicts KT's work. Apparently it would be the non existence of the Cuy'val dar which is the basis for all of the RC series. But I haven't read any hard proof on that topic so consider I consider it rumor :\

[Shi Akaan]

You should, because even if in the end it's no longer considered "Canon", it is still a great read and it will draw you in. Not only that but it will give you a better understanding of how mandalorians are.

I still haven't found anything concrete on what exactly contradicts KT's work. Apparently it would be the non existence of the Cuy'val dar which is the basis for all of the RC series. But I haven't read any hard proof on that topic so consider I consider it rumor :\

I was just meaning I didn't want to read and then wish there was a third. But I will.

I think there are some mandalorian events and such not yet released that have a huge impact on canon. Other wise if it was something small I doubt she would have quit. There are alot of other comics and such that look past little glitches in canon.

[Verden Fel]

I was just meaning I didn't want to read and then wish there was a third. But I will.

I think there are some mandalorian events and such not yet released that have a huge impact on canon. Other wise if it was something small I doubt she would have quit. There are alot of other comics and such that look past little glitches in canon.

Well, since it'll be the last it'll be set up like that. And yeah, I think the changes to Mandalorians must be fairly big or she wouldn't have left.

[A'den Kyr'amur]

They are making changes in Mando cannon?

[Verden Fel]

Yeah, in the Clone Wars show. They're renaming Keldabe to be Sundari, and they're completely changing Karen Traviss's image of it.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/f3/Mandalore_TCW.jpg

We are the Borg.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2009/04/14/borg-cube.jpg

[A'den Kyr'amur]

I think I like the Karen Traviss version better.

[Rynech Viatl]

I think I like the Karen Traviss version better.

We all do, A'den. We all do.

[Gilamar]

well, that just stuck a potatoe in my tailpipe, hurray for people who get anal about everything if it's not 100% right, reminds me of the shit that went off when they released the new star trek movie.

[Heimdall Surtr]

That's pretty terrible, but then again expected. Lucas has a history of breaking while trying to fix things that don't need fixing.

[Gale Skreev'kyr]

Wow, there goes just about all of our canon out the window. I am so very disappointed, especially in the responses of most of the Star Wars community.

[Heimdall Surtr]

Yeah, I know Gale. I really thought Lucas would leave this untouched considering the relatively large following that Karen has in her books. She's one of the best sources for EU information that there is.

[Kom'rk Tahii]

This is just depressing. Karen Traviss is a major inspiration to me, I actually picked this name in honor of the Null ARC N-6 who was called "Kom'rk"...

*sigh*

[Shi Akaan]

I think it is actualy quite disrespectfull of lucasarts. If I was her I would file a lawsuit against lucasarts to change it back or give compensation. I mean she had to have a contract and I'm sure there is some way she could fight back. The clone wars has been taken control of by tons of people running around with their heads cut off. *giggles* :jango: couldn't help it.

[Triso Telex]

Look at that picture, first there is no Tree's, no hutt's, no nomadic lifestyle. That is the first thing that Urks me. Then the fact that in the Clone Wars they have Boba Fett Running around with the new "Mandalore" it throws off Her whole story line. Not only RC but the whole Legacy of the Force Era since a major plot line is Jania Solo Training on Mandalore to kill her brother. Also we now do not really know What happen in Fett's life after his dad died besides Empire Strikes Back.

I am still pissed off about this.

This shows that Lucas does not give a shit about the EU at all. All clone wars is doing is tearing the EU apart.

The only good news I have is Karen is going to be working on Halo Novels.

[Shi Akaan]

Then the fact that in the Clone Wars they have Boba Fett Running around with the new "Mandalore" it throws off Her whole story line.

Not only that but countless other books, fan fics, and comics.

Also we now do not really know What happen in Fett's life after his dad died besides Empire Strikes Back.

Actualy we no alot about Boba Fett.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_fett

There also have been countless books, comics, and refrences involving him.

[Triso Telex]

Not only that but countless other books, fan fics, and comics.



Actualy we no alot about Boba Fett.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_fett

There also have been countless books, comics, and refrences involving him.


You misunderstood me. Yes we know alot about fett I myself have all the comics and books. The thing is now with him fighting with the mandalore in the clone wars it means that all the backstory between Jango's Death and Empire Strikes back we really know nothing. The clone wars changed it all what we all know is non on the verge of not being anygood anymore.

Do you understand what i was saying now?

[Shi Akaan]

You misunderstood me. Yes we know alot about fett I myself have all the comics and books. The thing is now with him fighting with the mandalore in the clone wars it means that all the backstory between Jango's Death and Empire Strikes back we really know nothing. The clone wars changed it all what we all know is non on the verge of not being anygood anymore.

Do you understand what i was saying now?

Oh :) Yeah I get what you mean. I think it would be interesting to know how he became who he is. ? = :boba:

[Myith]

Ummmm idk but theres books about it, that show how he progresses through the clone wars to a bounty hunter, how he becomes Mandalore, and how he ends up with Mandalorians as he has in books after episode VI i have no idea.

But there is like a 10 book series for children that show his progression from depressed child to top Bounty Hunter of the galaxy. The 10 book series basically amounts to a single novel though so its basically one good read not 10 good reads.

[Shi Akaan]

Childrens books? Interesting.

[Aeridas Sia'ryd]

I think it is actualy quite disrespectfull of lucasarts. If I was her I would file a lawsuit against lucasarts to change it back or give compensation. I mean she had to have a contract and I'm sure there is some way she could fight back. The clone wars has been taken control of by tons of people running around with their heads cut off. *giggles* :jango: couldn't help it.

She wouldn't win anything. Authors who write for franchises like Lucasarts or Bungie have to sign contracts before they begin their work stating that what they are writing about is in no way their own intellectual property and the company they are writing for has the complete and total right to go in and change what the author comes up with at will. Contract writers really have no rights. They may be awesome author's like Traviss who had the ability to create a whole new culture within the SW universe, but because she signed that contract she doesn't actually own any of the stuff she created. She doesn't own the culture and its history or its language and mannerisms, she's just out of the loop now. *shrugs* Its sad, but that is the way of contractual franchise writing.

On the otherhand though, having liked her RC novels so much, I think I'm going to check out some of her other books the next time I'm at the library or book store. :boba:

[A'den Kyr'amur]

She wouldn't win anything. Authors who write for franchises like Lucasarts or Bungie have to sign contracts before they begin their work stating that what they are writing about is in no way their own intellectual property and the company they are writing for has the complete and total right to go in and change what the author comes up with at will. Contract writers really have no rights. They may be awesome author's like Traviss who had the ability to create a whole new culture within the SW universe, but because she signed that contract she doesn't actually own any of the stuff she created. She doesn't own the culture and its history or its language and mannerisms, she's just out of the loop now. *shrugs* Its sad, but that is the way of contractual franchise writing.

On the otherhand though, having liked her RC novels so much, I think I'm going to check out some of her other books the next time I'm at the library or book store. :boba:

Her Gears of War books are really good. I've read one of them and am going to read the second one when it comes out.

[Tracyn]

I tried finding them at a local bookstore but they don't have any KT books :(

I'll have to order them online... what a pain in the arse x(

[kalenath]

I HIGHLY recommend her Wess'har Wars series.

It starts with 'City of Pearl' and gets better. Some of the books are a bit slow, and a couple are a bit boring at times, but all in all it gives a VERY good view of what might happen if humanity did go outside our solar system and found out we were NOT the biggest bully on the block anymore.

As far as her personally, she cannot be anywhere near as annoying as Orson Scott Card is. And I speak from experience on that.

People don't understand her work so they just say its all crap. My response...

They are idiots, and they know it and don't care.

[Gale Skreev'kyr]

Just take care not to argue with idiots. I heard a saying once that they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Oh August 8, 2009, Republic Commando author Karen Traviss stated that she was leaving the Star Wars franchise due to alleged continuity issues raised with the preview publication of Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Visual Guide Ultimate Battles at the 2009 San Diego Comic-Con, which included information that Mandalorians were involved in the series and clashed with the continuity set up by her novels. Leland Chee and Sue Rostoni maintain that the complications will eventually be worked out.

I saw this posted on the SW:TOR thread and it seems that some people are holding out hope that the continuity errors will be worked out.

[Aeridas Sia'ryd]

Yes, but from the sounds of it, KT is leaving regardless. :(

[Verden Fel]

The continuity errors will be worked out, but it's hard to say how long that will take.

[Vlet Hansen]

I've seen this topic everywhere I go... I heard one person who I agreed with wholeheartedly (after their argument convinced me), and his argument boiled down to: relax. They're not under oath to disclose every detail of their lives to us. It might be something completely harmless, and it's probably not even remotely as bad as we all think. We just need to chill out.

[Ordo "Null-11"]

You should, because even if in the end it's no longer considered "Canon", it is still a great read and it will draw you in. Not only that but it will give you a better understanding of how mandalorians are.

I still haven't found anything concrete on what exactly contradicts KT's work. Apparently it would be the non existence of the Cuy'val dar which is the basis for all of the RC series. But I haven't read any hard proof on that topic so consider I consider it rumor :\

What do you mean by "canon"?

[Reiceo Veral]

What do you mean by "canon"?

Official Star Wars lore, at least thats how I understand it.

[Verden Fel]

What do you mean by "canon"?

Official Star Wars lore, at least thats how I understand it.

Yeah, canon is what is classified as "true" Star Wars lore. Technically there are different levels, with movies being the highest (but that's all I know about that system). Unfortunately, a lot of what Lucas is doing with the Clone Wars series is eliminating what Karen Traviss established about Mandalorians.

[A'den Kyr'amur]

Yeah, canon is what is classified as "true" Star Wars lore. Technically there are different levels, with movies being the highest (but that's all I know about that system). Unfortunately, a lot of what Lucas is doing with the Clone Wars series is eliminating what Karen Traviss established about Mandalorians.

This man,

http://missivesfrommarx.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/simon-cowell-thumbs-down1.jpg

and most SW fans, disapprove of George Lucas.

[Jak Covell]

What do you mean by "canon"?
It means they will fire Karen Traviss out of a huge freakin' cannon, It is a very sad day but it must happen. :(

[Vlet Hansen]

has it ever occurred to you that Lucas isn't just being a jerk? After all, he's the one who put Jango in the second episode, effectively opening the door to real Mando storylines...

[Verden Fel]

has it ever occurred to you that Lucas isn't just being a jerk? After all, he's the one who put Jango in the second episode, effectively opening the door to real Mando storylines...
He also sort of started Star Wars, and without that there wouldn't even be anything to complain about.

[Hodayc Yogamet]

He also sort of started Star Wars, and without that there wouldn't even be anything to complain about.

All true, but he's got his own sense of the Star Wars universe, and apparently Mando'ade don't play a pivitol role (nor does he want them to). I think he sees them as the bad guys, but the canon just wrote itself.

I have a buddy that works for EA here in Canada and when he used to work for Bioware, he said there were LucasArts continuity guys breathing down their necks everyday for every little detail. However, it seems they just want to protect the integrity of the six films... everything else is forfeit in Lucas' mind. And since Jango and Boba are the only Mandos in the films - with no mention of Mando'yaim, Mando'a (Jango supposedly speaks huttese to Boba in Tipoca City in front of Obi Wan), or Mando'ade in general - then Lucas has free reign to write their history as HE sees fit. Can't say I blame the guy. I would want to protect my itellectual property too. But Karen Traviss' books are just so damn good. Rich plot lines. Rich charaters. End of story.

George probably hasn't even read them.

...so fuck him in the beard.

[Dorian Kel]

I've just accepted the fact that Lucas will change things to how he likes them and retcon them later ,hell before Episode II Boba Fett's real name was Jaster Meerl as opposed to just a cover he used based on the Mando his dad helped.
I see no reason we can't continue with Mandalorian Culture as KT created it.

It doesn't look like they are going to change the whole thing compelely in fact next months issue of Star Wars Insider is all about the Mandalorians. There doesn't seem to be a way to have such an issue with out Kt's work.

My only hope is that she will end the last book with a bang and in form with Lucas's " I hate all fans" continuity so we don't lose our whole way of life as cannon

Long live Boba Fett The Mandalore :boba:

[|EV|Axis Halcyon]

Wow, I had no idea. This is rather sad. I enjoy the RC books, and I'm sorry they are not only ending, but being knocked out of canon.

[Bat Mandalorian]

I've just accepted the fact that Lucas will change things to how he likes them and retcon them later ,hell before Episode II Boba Fett's real name was Jaster Meerl as opposed to just a cover he used based on the Mando his dad helped. :

you see thats what seperated SW from Star Trek, Lack of unnumerable paradoxes. I don't believe george will wipe our culture completley. He may think of us as "Bad Guys" but that's just "a certain point of view".
Truth is mando's counter force users and even George Lucas wrote them as that.

[Verden Fel]

you see thats what seperated SW from Star Trek, Lack of unnumerable paradoxes. I don't believe george will wipe our culture completley. He may think of us as "Bad Guys" but that's just "a certain point of view".
Truth is mando's counter force users and even George Lucas wrote them as that.

In the movies, which are the only things Lucas wrote (aside from TCW), Mandalorians die. Boba Fett isn't shown to counter Force users; he just falls in a sarlacc pit. Jango does kill one or two Jedi, but then gets decapitated by Mace Windu.

And how do pacifists counter Force users?

[Garden Skirata]

And how do pacifists counter Force users?

They ... uh ... pacify them?

[Bat Mandalorian]

[QUOTE=Verden Fel;27762]In the movies, which are the only things Lucas wrote (aside from TCW), Mandalorians die. Boba Fett isn't shown to counter Force users; he just falls in a sarlacc pit. Jango does kill one or two Jedi, but then gets decapitated by Mace Windu.QUOTE]



Boba's talking back to Vader in cloud city. Their relationship is OBVIOUSLY one of respect. And the battle between Jango and Obi-wan is the only good thing to come out of Attack of the Clones.

[Verden Fel]

[QUOTE=Verden Fel;27762]In the movies, which are the only things Lucas wrote (aside from TCW), Mandalorians die. Boba Fett isn't shown to counter Force users; he just falls in a sarlacc pit. Jango does kill one or two Jedi, but then gets decapitated by Mace Windu.QUOTE]



Boba's talking back to Vader in cloud city. Their relationship is OBVIOUSLY one of respect. And the battle between Jango and Obi-wan is the only good thing to come out of Attack of the Clones.
That still doesn't show Mandalorian pacifists being meant to counter Force users.

[Tracyn]

I can't helpt but tear away at my eyes when I read "Mandalorian Pacifist"


It's just... blasphemous

[Garden Skirata]

Their relationship is OBVIOUSLY one of respect.

I don't know if I'd go that far - I doubt Vader respected anyone. I would be more likely to accept that it was professional recognition - it isn't good business to hire big name bounty hunters then renig on your deals ... won't make using them in the future very easy.

And, you know, this whole "Mandos counter force users" thing seems right out of left field for anyone who didn't read those books. Mandalorians are bad ass warriors and have tangled with force users in the past, but never on equal terms - and I really don't see them spending that much time working up ways to counter force users unless they are preparing for some coming conflict ... you might as well say they're specialized at confronting Wookies or Rodians since they've managed to kill their share of them in the past as well.

Me, I imagine they're simply warriors who like to be very well prepared, so they have an answer to most situations they run into ... so, sure they're going to have techniques to help them fight force users ... but those same techniques are also great against any number of other adversaries.

In the game timeline I'm guessing they'd make sure to have a trick or two on hand all the time, in case they have to take on a jedi or sith, but that hardly makes it their specialization.

IN FACT, for all those people who complain Jedi/Sith are overpowered and given too much attention in the SW universe (which I consider ridiculous statements, both, but that's another argument) it does a disservice to Mandos to call them "Force nullifiers" ... there are many other games going on in the Galaxy - why do the forcies have to be central to Mando identity as well?

[Garden Skirata]

I can't helpt but tear away at my eyes when I read "Mandalorian Pacifist"

Be my guest - someone should be tearing their eyes out over this and me, my arms get tired.

[Vlet Hansen]

I just think back to Skirata's line at the docks...

[Ranov Dhaka]

Guys you do realise that KT novels were never part of the "Canon" right? The novels happen is the EU and have little to no impact on the "SW Canon" before everything that happens in the EU GL also control to make sure it stay trues to the "Canon". As for "those who no longer exist" I doubt they would go away since some of the members have their own toys.

Of course GL always disappointed me when it came to his canon retcon and it started way back when he said that the canon Revan was male. Next thing i'll know they'll make female mando useless stay at home women who are only proefficient in dealing damage with forks, let alone know how to use a blaster.

*goes to her corner and mutter about the injustice of it all*

[Tracyn]

Guys you do realise that KT novels were never part of the "Canon" right? The novels happen is the EU and have little to no impact on the "SW Canon" before everything that happens in the EU GL also control to make sure it stay trues to the "Canon". As for "those who no longer exist" I doubt they would go away since some of the members have their own toys.

Of course GL always disappointed me when it came to his canon retcon and it started way back when he said that the canon Revan was male. Next thing i'll know they'll make female mando useless stay at home women who are only proefficient in dealing damage with forks, let alone know how to use a blaster.

*goes to her corner and mutter about the injustice of it all*

No not really... they become copy cats of Princess Leia and Padme Amidala. But they're not as cool and eventually fail apparently :/

[Ranov Dhaka]

No not really... they become copy cats of Princess Leia and Padme Amidala. But they're not as cool and eventually fail apparently :/

gah you really want to make me cry :( as much as I loved both....they are..... Gah *cries*

[Tracyn]

gah you really want to make me cry :( as much as I loved both....they are..... Gah *cries*

I know I know... *pat pat*

[Gale Skreev'kyr]

No not really... they become copy cats of Princess Leia and Padme Amidala. But they're not as cool and eventually fail apparently :/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Ranov Dhaka]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

*Join Gale*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO!

[Mortivore]

Gonna post this here, there is a pretty heated debate on the Tor forums about Karen

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2418402#post2418402

[Bivins]

OK yeah wow so WTF. I'm completely lost. Which way did the guild go on this as Traviss fans or just the fact that mando's are a bunch of bamfs? (I can take a guess and say its gonna be heavily handed one sided) The more I've learned about mando's from yall the more I like the blow shit up and laugh about it side.

[Tracyn]

What do you mean? :\

[Bivins]

I mean which Mandalorians do people like better in the guild? The Karen Traviss mandalorians or "canonized" mandalorians the "jedi-lovers" keep talking about in that posted thread. Personally I think it's great that there are books like this that arent about jetsii. I know there are other books but in the last 10 years there havent been that many. (on another note, I cant tell but have other races been announced besides human? the avatars from the posters showed a couple of different ones but I'm clueless). I'm just trying to catch up where we are as a guild without the [I]days[I] of going through every thread in the forum. Where do we stand as far as RP now in game come launch?

[Verden Fel]

I love the Republic Commando series, and I really like the Mandalorians she created. Of course, it helped that that was my first, and main, experience with Mandalorians. I never saw too much of the previous version, and I refuse to watch the Clone Wars partly because of the pacifistic "New Mandalorians". But I have to agree with some of their arguments against her. Her book Revelation really showed the Mandalorians as the good guys and the Jedi as the evil power-hungry bad guys, and her making the Mandalorians superior to the Jedi in every way really doesn't make sense. I think YodaKenobi's post (http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/28128642/p5) summed up all its problems pretty well (if you actually read the whole thing - out of curiosity I copied it into word. It's 33 pages). I think her RC novels were much better.

[Bivins]

true true I was just curious as to where we stand as far as our RPing goes come game launch. And why do I have a feeling some of us will get persecuted for being mando'ade?

[Bivins]

btw I am on xfire right now if someone wants to talk that way instead of posting back and forth. tag is bivika

[Verden Fel]

true true I was just curious as to where we stand as far as our RPing goes come game launch. And why do I have a feeling some of us will get persecuted for being mando'ade?
Well, for the most part I think people respect Mando fans (sometimes called Fandalorians) until they go to the Revelation extreme and say Mandalorians are better than Jedi in almost every way. As far as our RP, I think it's a bit of a mix between Karen Traviss's Mandalorians and the Mandalorians in the KotOR era.

[Bat Mandalorian]

Personally i don't think Mando's are "superior" to jedi, but we do have CENTURIES of warfare against them. Traviss says they're "different skill lists" but I believe Mando's were created to counter force users, to show that you don't have to be a Karkin Jetiise to be a bad-ass in SW.

[Tracyn]

The fact that you have a chicken Boba Fett as your avatar translated your text into:

SHUT UP! I'M AWESOME!


XD

[Bivins]

I'm just tired of jetsiie being all badass and what not. I think the reason mando'ade can beat jetsiie is because they are unpredictable, not unstoppable.

[Verden Fel]

I'm just tired of jetsiie being all badass and what not. I think the reason mando'ade can beat jetsiie is because they are unpredictable, not unstoppable.
Well, the fact is the most powerful Jedi could completely destroy most Mandalorians. They stopped the Mandalorians in the Mandalorian Wars.

[Bat Mandalorian]

Mand'alor Vs. Grandmaster (Besides the fact that jedi shouldn't elevate themselves with titles) No questions. My point was the same reason that I gravitate towards The Bat. These are ordianary dudes doing extraordinary things. Standing on par with super powered/force sensetive heroes and villians with nothing but training and tech.

I believe that's what Mando's represent. The idea that Force Sensetives aren't the only teams on the field. And of course Pacifists doesn't work for that because they have been employed time and again to confront Force using societies.

[Bivins]

Mandalorians basically represent the Chaos theory.

[Rynech Viatl]

Mand'alor Vs. Grandmaster (Besides the fact that jedi shouldn't elevate themselves with titles) No questions. My point was the same reason that I gravitate towards The Bat. These are ordianary dudes doing extraordinary things. Standing on par with super powered/force sensetive heroes and villians with nothing but training and tech.

I believe that's what Mando's represent. The idea that Force Sensetives aren't the only teams on the field. And of course Pacifists doesn't work for that because they have been employed time and again to confront Force using societies.

This doesn't change the fact that the Jedi have defeated the Mandalorians time and time again. Revan defeated Mand'alor at Malachor V, and the rest of the Mandalorians along with him. Exar Kun defeated Mand'alor and commanded the Mandalorians as his own personal army. It's a repeating cycle.

I don't mean to badmouth Mandalorians, not in the least, but I think your hypothesis that Mandos are meant to counter Jedi is incorrect. Mandalorians are their own beast entirely, and tying them to Jedi in any way defeats the purpose. I believe this is partway the mistake that Karen Traviss has made. I appreciate the fact that she helped to develop Mando culture, but she's elevated them to this god-like status that they really shouldn't have, and this is perfectly illustrated by Yoda-Kenobi's post that Verden linked. I'd go so far as to say that I don't like beskar. It encourages lazy writing on our part; it makes us damn near invincible gods, impervious to blasterfire and lightsabers as long as we're wearing enough. It defeats one of the basic tenants of warfare: take cover. Walls take fire better than flesh does. Armor should be a last defense. Don't get shot.

Instead we can walk through blasterfire like we've had a tin can thrown at us. Lightsabers have no effect on us, much less a normal blade. My point is, let's not make the mistake of calling ourselves the counter to Jedi. That's not what we are. That's the Sith's job. Karen's blatant hatred of the Jedi left a bad taste in my mouth in that regard.

[Tracyn]

I couldn't agree with you more Rynech *cheers*

[Bat Mandalorian]

I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin. Maybe counter wasn't the word I was looking for. Maybe Balance? I mean your right we do get shut down when push comes to shove, But as far back as ESB Mandalorian armor was a menacing sight.

[Bivins]

I look at is as Mandalorians are the clean up crew. Now where I'm from I think that pretty much means the same as everywhere else. Mando's got the balls to do things normal people arent capable of. I'm just glad someone finally had the guts to take the jedi down a beg or two even if she did it the wrong way.

[Vlet Hansen]

Mandalorians aren't supposed to be some "countering" force at all, mandalorians are just the best, most powerful, deadliest and all around nastiest enemies you'll ever fight. The ultimate soldiers of SW.

[Bivins]

We are the best plain and simple =P

[Vlet Hansen]

there's a reason Mandalorians command higher fees for work, it's because the quality's better...

[Bat Mandalorian]

Mandalorians aren't supposed to be some "countering" force at all, mandalorians are just the best, most powerful, deadliest and all around nastiest enemies you'll ever fight. The ultimate soldiers of SW.

Have you ever heard of symbolism?

[Bivins]

Have you ever heard of symbolism?

kandosii ner vod

[Vlet Hansen]

symbolism of what?